B2B Growth is Powered by Your People with Darrell Hammond

Darrell Hammond: If there's not the trust there to have that conversation stuff is going to happen in your organization that you don't know about it until it's way too late. And then guess what? Then it's, then it's bad news for everybody.

John Common: Welcome to Growth Driver. We're the best minds in B2B or redefining growth. Hey everybody. Welcome to Growth Driver. I am John Common. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: And I am Anne Marie Coughlin. 

John Common: Yeah, I'm so excited, Anne Marie, for this, uh, this episode. I've been looking forward to it for a really long time. And look, I know, you know, cause you know, you, you are a people ops expert.

Yeah. So you, you know, this, what I'm about to talk about better than most people that people. And culture are ultimately what makes your growth strategy successful. But honestly, growth executives, CMOs, CROs, the VPs who report to them, we can often forget that fact. Because, and, and look, I have empathy because I am that person.

I have empathy because in face of all the technology and the strategy and the tactics and the, the reporting and the analytics and the best practices and the research that gets thrown at us as go to market leaders. We can sometimes forget that you can have a brilliant strategy. You can even go to execute it pretty doggone well and still underperform.

And the reason is because if you get the people part wrong, it's real hard to get the growth part right. If you get the people part wrong, it's hard to get the growth part right. And that's especially true When it comes to B2B go to market because B2B growth is fundamentally a team sport and let's be honest It's a little bit of a complex one.

And so You know when you talk about the role of people and culture in growth, you're talking about leadership Right. Mm hmm. And, uh, and that's what today's episode is all about. You and me and a guest who I'm about to introduce are going to have an honest and candid conversation about what great leaders do better than average leaders.

We're going to talk about, honestly, about where do leaders stumble? Where do they make mistakes? And we're going to hopefully give them some great advice and reminders about how you can start applying. Um, better leadership approaches, uh, today, right now, with your team. So, um, I want to, uh, you know, tee up this guest that you and I both know, Ann Marie.

Yes. Daryl Hammond. We know Daryl. Daryl is a career long executive leadership coach. He's a management and culture consultant. He's a speaker and a thought leader, Daryl. You are a former SVP of organizational effectiveness and HR. That is a title. And I think the best part about introducing you, and I've been wanting to do this for a long time is you are also a longtime friend of mine.

You and I go way back. Welcome to growth driver. 

Darrell Hammond: Yeah. Glad to be here. And, uh, talking about leaders, I loved your quote and I love the fact that you pumped the brakes, put it in reverse and said it again, like you, your organization isn't much of anything if you don't have the right team on board. So can't wait for this discussion.

John Common: And Marie, I think we should get right into it. What do you, what do you think? 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: I am so excited for this conversation, Daryl. Thanks for joining us. Really excited. 

Darrell Hammond: Absolutely. Let's do 

John Common: it. We're going to it. So, um, first thing I want to go right at is. And look, you have, you've got so much experience. You have worked with so many different executive teams, so many different leaders individually and in company settings, lots of different verticals and industries.

Over the last 10, even 15 years, how have the fundamentals of leadership changed? evolved or progressed from your perspective? 

Darrell Hammond: Yeah. Wow. That's a really good question. Uh, you know, um, obviously everyone is, is still talking about post pandemic things, which that just kind of T boned everyone's, you know, their common natural style because they were like, wait, I used to do that in person, that kind of thing.

Obviously that's impacted. But I would say this too, though, If you weren't already working on the fact that, you know, am I really showing up? Uh, the way that I really am, or am I trying to be that person where, like, I think that I need to be seen as this kind of leader. And Anne Marie, we talked about this back in the day, like, if I'm in a need to be seen as place, I'm probably trying to just mimic or parrot someone that I saw do something once that seemed like a cool thing.

And the rest of us are watching you do that thing and going, that's not authentic at all. You know, what, what was that, that, that does not fit within what we know about you and how you act on a day to day basis. So everyone's talking about, you know, be your authentic self. I don't even think most of us know when we're not being our authentic self, because we're just trying to be, you know, some best version of a leader instead of just showing up and just going, you know, sometimes I don't know the answer to your question.

We'll figure it out together. Cause we got, we got a great team, but when the people don't do that, and people and leaders are actually sitting in a place where they're trying to act like they know what they're doing and everyone around them knows they don't, not only are they disingenuine, disingenuous to the situation, but they're kind of, uh, you know, their, their integrity and their trust in that person actually.

Take a serious. It's not just a dip. It's a dive, right? Because you and I both know that that is not what the situation is. And if you believe that you're either delusional or you think I'm stupid or whatever. And then all of those funky dynamics start happening, you know, in that in that relationship. So I don't know that I have a list for you, John, on that question, but.

Uh, I would just start out by saying, um, you know, being a leader is, is trying to be authentic and being authentic to yourself. And, and, uh, yeah, I was just speaking with a guy yesterday who's, who's also a, uh, a lifelong learner. And we were just like, every time I think I've got leadership wrapped up, I realized how much I don't know.

And so, uh, you know, my hobby is even reading leadership books and listening to podcasts. Cause I realize, I mean, John, you were very kind and not calling me an Just a minute ago by saying you have all of this experience and I do. And I met them at the back end of this, this, my career. And I'm just thinking, you know, wow, even when you had that much experience, it's different.

Every organization, every culture, every circumstance is different. And so. I try to not try to, you know, boilerplate and, and just stamp things as this is, I've seen this before, so I'm just gonna do that. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Mm. 

Darrell Hammond: Because there's so much nuance in that. 

John Common: Yeah. You know, uh, so authenticity. That, that's, that, that, that I think you're saying modern effective leadership is rooted in authenticity and you know, I hear you say that and I, I, I feel, I, I try to practice that, you know, I'm a leader.

We're all through all of us on this call. Every, everybody. I bet you, everybody listening. To this episode is currently a leader or months or quarters away from getting promoted into leadership because that's who we talked to on growth driver. But, you know, when I think about authenticity, it's a, let's unpack that.

What does that really mean? Because like, you know, the role of being, especially a senior leader is you have to model focus. You have to model values. You have to model. These, these really important things in a business setting around caring for the customer about, uh, efficiency and, um, teamwork and morale and values, and don't forget profitability and all these things.

And yet along comes Daryl and says, you can, but be real, be your real self. Be imperfect too. What advice do you give someone like listening to this podcast? Who's like, I want to be authentic. How do I do that? How do I really do that? And not. mess it up. 

Darrell Hammond: You know, I, I think one thing, you know, so I do a lot of executive coaching.

And that means that I have private conversations with leaders of all kinds, shapes and, you know, in different industries, cross, cross industry. And one of the things that we talk about behind the scenes is, um, I've never done this before and I'm scared. Nobody's going to say that out loud to your team, but you're going to say that to your coach and you're, and I lean in and go, Hey.

Join the club, right? Everybody is kind of wondering, am I up for this? Do I have what it takes? Do I have the experience? Because so many of us were promoted out of being a subject matter expert, and we didn't necessarily have all of the tools that it takes to go to the next level. Because here, this is a super basic model.

But you know, when you're a subject matter expert, you're, you're high on tech on the technical side of what you do, and you were the best at it and nobody else can do it better than you. And then all of a sudden we're like, Hey, let's get John into a different role. Yeah. He's so good at this. Let's reward him for that.

And so we take John out of his subject matter expertise and we go and throw him into a deep end of a pool, which is now managing human beings, not necessarily managing the subject that he's so good at. And so I would say. Um, for those of us who haven't been in this space or it's new to you, if you're not there yet and you want to be there, you can't, it's not too early to start studying what is leadership and how does that fit me?

When I put on that coat, what does that feel like for me? And do I have my own style or am I just going to try to mimic someone else? Um, and then for organizations, I think, in a broader sense, are we really doing professional development and executive development? And even thinking about that, um, I think, you know, this John, I'm an executive recruiter also, um, and, uh, working with this organization now board of directors that's wanting to bring in its senior leader.

And, and they're looking at some really strong, young up and comers that have the degrees. They just don't have the experience, right? I mean, they, they have the knowledge, but they've not actually been around the track a few times. And so as they're looking at these, these young, delicious leaders, there are there.

I'm also saying. What comes with that is there's some gaps and that's not to say anything disparaging about the candidate. It's just that they haven't had that much time in the role. So if we don't determine what those gaps are and actually build a plan around that, it's going to be a fail for them and a fail for us.

And who wants that? Nobody wants to go that route. So the idea is, can we, as leaders back up enough to say, I need to get shored up in this area? And then there's a plan, a personal development plan or professional development plan that we can actually put in place so that we can make sure that, you know, at least you're, you're growing, you're taking your leadership vitamins is what I call them.

Like, if you're not taking leadership vitamins, you're just doing the same thing you did yesterday. And that's probably not going to fit. 

John Common: Yeah. Anne Marie, uh, leads recruiting at, at, at intelligent demand for us among like 500 other things that she does. But, uh, I'm sure that resonates with you, Anne Marie.

Anne-Marie Coughlin: It does. It really does. It's like, yeah, I, I love that point about bringing new talent into an organization and the responsibility of leaders at the organization to make sure that they're bringing this really great talent in and helping them grow and develop because everyone we hire comes to us with their superpowers and it's our responsibility to help them use those to even do more good in the world.

So it's such a good point. Yeah, I love that. 

John Common: What? Do you look for when you're recruiting or evaluating or coaching someone who's at that top level that executive level? What are some things where you're like man it I would recommend that you To your point, take some vitamins or get good at these kinds of things that are unique to someone who manages managers.

Darrell Hammond: Yeah, and you know it it it's at some point too you shift from management Which is making the trains come and go on time right hitting the quality and all of the all of your standards to leadership Right, so you're leading leaders at some level in the organization and that turns into Um, do I have a clear, you know vision of where we're going?

Like, can I articulate something that sounds so compelling that it's like, when do we leave? Like, when does the train leave? Let's go, right? I'm so pumped up. I want to be on this team and I want to do that. So there's a, there's an inspirational part of this. And then there's the accountability piece, you know, cause you know, if without accountability, You really are not going to get the results that you want.

And I think that's what most leaders, especially senior leaders need at this point is like, we need results. This can't, we want our culture to feel good and we want people to be happy and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, we're all, we're all wearing the same uniform because we're trying to, sorry.

It's. Basketball season. You can see the ball behind me. You know, we got to put the ball in the hole, man. I mean, that's the bottom line. And we need to keep the other team from doing that same thing. So what are, what are the plans? What are the skills that we need to do that? So leaders leading leaders who are managers managing others have to also, uh, uh, be micromanagement mode.

Right, because we all can complain every one of us on the screen and people listening can can point out someone who micromanaged them and we hated it like they were all up in our business every day. And one of the reasons that that we that we humans do that is because we were the subject matter expert.

We knew it better than anybody. And if you don't do it just the way that I do it. But yeah, you know, I saw you shoot the ball, John. Sorry, going back to a basketball analogy. I saw you saw you shoot the ball. You need to bring your elbow in just a little bit more. What did the ball go in? Daryl? It didn't.

Shut up. Just put the ball in. I don't care how it gets in. Just put the ball in. And if I'm now micromanaging, cause you're not doing it the way that I did it. That is a curse to not only, uh, have high turnover, but the commitment goes in the toilet, man. So part of this is, can I consciously and intentionally back out of my, uh, my expertise and give people room to be the next me?

Somebody gave me room to do that. And can I now Um, not be so controlling. And because I'm now being held for the results of the organization, it feels like I need to have hands on the wheel. This is true for boards of directors too, right? People who get on boards of directors are amazing people. What they don't necessarily know is that depending on the type of board that it is, you are now responsible for directing the organization in terms of we're just, we're going Southeast and then, and then basically hand over the reins to the leader to say, now you get us there.

That's where we want to go. Here's some resources. We're now empowering you to do it instead of, Hey, let me help. Let me turn your blinker on for you. Hey, let me, uh, let me turn down your radio. Dude, get out of my business. Try to go southwest. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: I'd love to ask you a question. Cause one thing I think as leaders, sometimes we don't get feedback from the people that we manage.

Right. And so we don't know. What we don't know, um, are there questions that you give to leaders to ask themselves to kind of check themselves? Like, hey, am I, am I micromanaging or am I giving this person what they need to be successful? Are there kind of those self questions that you, you coach people to ask themselves?

Darrell Hammond: Yeah, you know, I have this thing called a drive by delegation, so I'm thinking of like a drive by shooting, which is not a great analogy, but just roll with me on it. Um, if I'm going so fast that when I come by and delegate to you that I don't actually have time to have you tell me back what you think I just said, then there's a good chance that the delegation is going, is going to go back.

It's going to go bad for what I think you, you should do for me. And you're going to, as soon as I walk away, actually I'm driving away. Cause I'm, I'm like, Hey, give me that thing. Don't forget to get it on Tuesday. It should be red on the bottom, blue on the top. And then yeah, make sure that, that I have it by that, that time.

Cause it's really important meeting. See ya. And when you're walking away, I'm sitting there going, well, what the heck was that? And how am I supposed to, how am I supposed to get the ball in the hole when I don't even know which basket to shoot at? So what do you tell people? What I tell leaders all the time is if you don't have time to actually hear the person say back to you what you think you just said, then you don't have time to delegate.

And that's what you do in that leader is like, John, what you were saying, the further up you go, the more delegation is happening because now you're managing the folks who are managing the folks who are managing the trains that are coming and going. Right. And so you can't, if you do it all, you're a micromanager.

You will either burn out or you will have high turnover because, uh, you can't do it all yourself at that level and you will drive people crazy and they will leave the organization. 

John Common: In my experience, the difference between a kind of mid level manager of a team versus a leader who is leading multiple teams, managing managers, leading managers, there's a lot of differences.

When you get to that senior leadership level, you just said the levels of trust and delegation and the opposite of micromanagement have to go up. So I think that's totally obvious and important. It bears repeating number one, but also, uh, I I've observed that the percentage of your time spent getting out of your lane Out of your domain and working with your peers in other, what are oftentimes silos, functions, departments, the req, it's always a good idea for everyone to do that in the, in the organization.

But when you become a senior leader, you actually, I think, have to apply time, prioritize time to get out of your chair, out of your department, walk down the hallway and the classic example at intelligent demand. With our clients is the CMO and the CRO need to talk more they need to plan more they need to share more Talk to me about that What do you see is that even the case from your experience?

And what do you how do you coach people? About how their priorities and time allocation changes as they rise in their career 

Darrell Hammond: Sure. I want to tie that back to, to Anne Marie's last question. And that is, what do you, what do you get people to try to think about like that? You know, my job is to get leaders to look in the mirror because we think we're doing a great job and many times we are moving so fast thinking about the box we need to check off and the next meeting that we're going to and all of that, that we don't necessarily focus on.

I tell people this all the time. Everything you need to know about the person you're interacting with is right in front of you. If you will slow down and be in the moment, there is, there are, there's body language. There are micro expressions, uh, uh, John, that even if, even if I just see your, I went a little bit, I'm going to pause and go, what was that?

Like, what are you thinking right now? Like unfiltered, give it to me right now. Just tell me it's okay. I know something's going on. What are you thinking about? And they may be thinking about, uh, I want to go play with my dog right now. And I wasn't thinking about you. Like I was, you caught me kind of daydreaming.

Okay, well, that's cool. Um, but it could be, uh, man, I don't agree with that or I don't understand that and, and we don't want to embarrass ourselves because you seem like you're in such a hurry, I just need to shut up and listen and try to figure it out later. So there's a, there's a part of this is that, um, uh, to your next point is the further up you go, you are now dealing with systems.

The further up you go, you're dealing with the systemic challenges that are going on in an organization, and if I think that my division and my department are more important than yours, then there's a good chance that I'm not paying attention to what you need, because there's an input, throughput, and output to everything.

Right. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I, I love this analogy is that, you know, when, uh, back in the day when I was playing ball, John, I could jump out of the gym. Okay. I mean, it was one of those things that if you and I landed on a court together, I would say to you, and this is in line of the three input throughput output.

If you were the point guard, I would come and whisper to you, even though we'd never played together. If you're even thinking about throwing me a lob, You have to throw it at the top of the square. Like you have to make me go get it. Like, don't, if it's anything, any passes below my waist, forget it. I ain't going to get it.

I'm six, seven. I'm not going to do it. Right. But if you throw something up, I will go to the moon to get it. And we will all go, wow. Including me, because you've stretched me to do something that I want to do, but that I don't, you know, so it was, there was almost this communication of. As we're, as the game progresses, as the company progresses, how do you want me to pass you the information?

How do you want me to pass? Do you want me to hit you in the numbers? Do you want me to hit you high? Do you want me to hit you low? Right. And it kind of depends if you've got a seven foot four guy on you, maybe it is better to go a little bit lower, right? Because that guy's going to pick off everything that's above you.

Sorry, I'm thinking final four right now, but I 

John Common: think this is coming across to the interview. I, I, I didn't, there's so many ways to introduce you. I failed to mention to the audience, but now they're getting it. You are literally, and you have been, and still are like you're six, seven. Is that right? Six, seven.

Yeah. So every dear growth driver audience, um, Daryl Hammond also in his spare time, you played Olympic ball. Isn't that right? Like you were literally on the Olympic team. Am I right about that? Yeah. 

Darrell Hammond: Okay. See, you didn't tell me we were all gonna go back into ancient history. . Yeah. Wait a minute. A time out.

What's going on right now? ? 

John Common: No, come on now. But, but hidden and not so hidden. Uh, because it just shows up in your metaphors, which I love by the way. But I just, I just want our audience to know you are a incredibly talented person and like so many different, uh, I love it. I love it. Um, alright, so I'm, I've been taking notes and, because I know we've got so many things to talk about, so we'll probably start to move on.

But I, the notes that I've taken is. As you rise in your career and as you become a manager and then a leader, there's a handful of kind of advice that I'm hearing you capture from us. And this is good for everybody, but especially senior leaders. One is really find ways to tap into your authenticity. And so authenticity is incredible and incredibly important.

Accountability. Find ways to be accountable and also create An environment where people feel like they can and need to be holding each other accountable. I heard that as you, as you rise in your career, you're still going to be doing management. You're going to be doing more vision setting and direction setting.

And it's going to start to be a lot more like leadership, capital L, uh, in addition to management capital M. I also heard rising levels of delegation and trust building, but trust demons demonstrating trust. And then I loved your point about systems. As you, as you rise in your career, you're going to manage people, but you're increasingly going to be managing systems.

And I would add cross functional systems. 

Darrell Hammond: Absolutely. 

John Common: Um, so I think that's a really good list. And again, like it's always, this always happens on growth driver. You end up, we end up unpacking a topic and we try to summarize it. Like I just tried to right there. And you listen to it and you go, I kind of knew that, but knowing something ain't the same as remembering it and doing it and operationalizing it.

And I think that's so true in leadership too, you know, where you're like, you end up, Hearing something like, like I just said, or that Daryl that, you know, and you go, I kind of knew that. And, but I don't think the question is, did you know it or recognize it? I think the real question, especially today on this episode is, are you doing it?

Darrell Hammond: Yeah, there's a, there's a difference between that. And, uh, you know, I, I have found that with, we have so many amazing, smart, young leaders that are, that are coming up, um, and subject matter experts who want to be leaders, right. And as, as I find that some of these young leaders are applying for positions that are probably two rungs above where they are, they think that they know how to do that because they watched a YouTube video.

Right. Or they read a book or they heard a podcast or something like that. And like you said, it's different. You actually have to go and do this and fail and try and fail and try to actually start to get better at this. So I would just say to you for, to, to the listeners, uh, absolutely drink deeply from leadership material and from, uh, leadership experts, but you, and, and if you're not in a place right now where you're actually leading someone, go volunteer.

Right. Go, go to a year, go to some amazing nonprofit who would love to have your time. You're going to, you're going to go and serve somewhere, anywhere. Cause that's how that, that's how we're wired is like, we really get deep fulfillment from that. So go and, uh, and, and they will be glad you're there. And if you make a mistake, it's not, it's not that big of a deal because you can correct it.

And the stakes are not that high, but you can actually get some reps at it. Right. I would just say there are places where you can do that. Even if your position doesn't allow you to do that today. 

John Common: When people are making that leap from director to VP plus, that you as a leadership coach often find yourself saying, I know that got you here, but that's not going to get you to that next senior level.

Talk to me about that. 

Darrell Hammond: If I'm able to, in my director role, clearly identify what are the three or four things that make my job exist, like if this is, this is the purpose and the reason this job exists and why we pay what we pay and why it has the blah, blah, blah, all of that with it. I would say that I think the next step is to say, well, what are those same four things at the next level?

Do I even know what those are? I'm raising my hand and saying, Hey, just pick me. Do you know what you're being picked for? Like, are you being picked? Are you asking, put me in a center? On the team and you might not, you know, the other guys, seven foot four, do you really want to be center? I mean, are you ready for that yet?

So part of this is, do you even know how the systems work within your organization or within your, you know, it doesn't even have to be your organization. It can be your field, right? Cause you might not, your next promotion may not be within your organization. And, and leaders of organizations who are listening to this, if you've got strong people and you're not developing them, they're going to leave.

Okay. Okay. So if you're not watering and, and, uh, and feeding and helping them grow in their own career, they're going to find another place. So what can you do to, for retention, feed your own, right? Take care of your own, give them that development. But if it, as an individual, if I don't even know what that next level is, maybe I need a mentor.

Maybe I need to actually, uh, Um, you know, uh, maybe it's within my own company. Maybe it's not, but I want to find out what does it take? What are the next level requirements? Because accountability gets bigger and the teeth get sharper. The higher you go, everybody thinks it's going to be a bigger title and a bigger desk and a bigger, whatever.

And it is, but you know what, there's a, there's a price for that too. Right? Because now the buck stops. Um, I'm reminded of Jim Collins, uh, in his, in his book, good to great, which has got to be 20 years old by now. But man, just some solid stuff there. So if you haven't read or listened to good to great, go check that out.

But he talks about a level five leader, 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: right? 

Darrell Hammond: Remember this? 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah. 

Darrell Hammond: And a level five leader is the one that when things go wrong, they look in the mirror. And they take accountability for it. But when things go right, they open the window and they say, look at all these amazing people that got us here today.

And they're not sitting there patting their chest like they couldn't have done it without me, right? They're actually giving credit where credit is due because they're the ones that actually did the work. You directed it, but they did it right, but I'm going to take control of it because if I directed it and we didn't get what we needed, then the buck stops here.

So there's that piece of just be it. That's the authentic piece. I'm saying is, are you going to blame other people? Are you going to hold accountability in that senior role? 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: When we look at when, cause I know you do a lot with culture as well too, um, as well as individual contributors or individual coaching.

When you look at successful leadership teams, um, like leaders that work together with those other leaders, like John mentioned, the CROs together, what do you see? Are there common threads for successful leadership teams that come together to, to grow the company the way they want to go? 

Darrell Hammond: Absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, I'm sitting here smiling because I've got, like, several different videos playing in my head of teams that I work with. Um, I would say that the very foundational piece of an effective leadership team, an effective executive team, is trust. Do we trust each other? Because if you don't have, if you don't have a basis of trust, nothing else really matters.

Like, we're not going to have good conflict. We're not going to have, um, Good communication. All of those things are impacted on how much I trust you give you an example. Working with an organization won't tell you the name, but they already knew that they didn't trust each other. And what they didn't know as leaders, John, so here, this is a, this is a good way of saying, you know, did I have my radar dishes focused in the right place?

They knew it. But then when we did the culture survey, the organization said, we don't trust you because we see you not trusting each other. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah. 

Darrell Hammond: Right. And then they were like, Oh, Who opened that shade? Like, how do they know that we don't trust each other? I'm like, seriously, come on. We're in meetings with you.

We see how you roll your eyes and you fold your arms and you're just like, ah, you know, and, and if how as leadership goes, so goes the organization. If the leaders aren't trusting each other, how are you going to have a trusting culture? What should they, what should the CMO 

John Common: and CRO do really? To start to trust each other, 

Darrell Hammond: you know, John, man, you are putting your finger on something so important.

And Marie, you've heard me say this before. So if you've got a different way of saying this, please echo this or, or, or even disagree if you, if you do, um, at some point we all know. So, John, you're, you're the CRO. Whatever the role is, right? And we, and, and there's, there's funk between us, right? There were, and everybody sees it.

We see it. We smell it. We all that. If at some point I don't come to you and go, John, as leaders of this organization, we wouldn't even know each other if we weren't leaders in this organization. Probably right. I mean, there's just a good chance. So since people are counting on us to be good leaders, I feel like we could be doing better.

And I want to own my part of that. Like, I just I need to know more about what your team does and what you do and what you expect of us. And if we could get that to the surface, then maybe we could get to this place of trust. I do a ton of, uh, of workshops with people. You all have probably heard of Patrick Lencioni, the guy that wrote five dysfunctions of a team.

And, uh, and I, I actually, uh, help teams with the reverse of that. Like what if you don't want to be dysfunctional, then let's figure out how to be a cohesive team, right? So flip it over. Right. And what's fascinating about this is when teams actually do a survey on how much we trust each other, I mean, who's gonna who on this call?

Who's listening on this call? That would be excited about saying, let's set up a meeting and talk about how much we don't trust each other. Yeah, that'll be that'll be fun. You know, that's just weird, right? But But to have a place where you can actually come in and start to talk about, maybe I'm bringing lack of trust and it's from another job or another role or another poor experience that I had has nothing to do with you, John, it's me, right?

But if I don't, if I'm not doing, if I'm not sitting with myself a little bit and processing some of this, then I'm always going to see you through that other lens and I'll never trust you or anyone else in my world. So part of this is what is it like to be on the other side of me? You know, and Anne Marie, would you, would you toss any other thoughts in on that in terms of this idea of how do I, how do I at least become open to what another person might be experiencing?

Because it may not be what I think it is. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Right. You know, Daryl, having gone through your outward mindset training, one thing I was thinking about that's really stuck with me is the example of having two people sitting in a chair. with their backs to each other. And they're never looking at each other.

They're never going to go in the same direction. It takes that first person to turn their chair and just be willing to see the other person. And I remember someone saying, well, what if the other person doesn't turn their chair? And I'm like, but what if they do? You have to take that chance to say, I'm, I'm going to reach out to you.

I'm going to make that connection and I'm going to try to build that trust together. And it goes back to your earlier point of authenticity. If we just come with that, our authentic message to each other saying, I want to start to build this trust and take that first step, I just think that's, that image has always stuck with me of just, let's take the chance and turn our chair and see what that other person is doing.

So. Yeah, I love that. 

John Common: Growth goals are tough to hit. I know it, you know it, and the kind people in intelligent demand know it too. That's why they have a team of experts across media, content, creative, rev ops, and strategy, who know how to work together, together, together. And with you to crush your revenue growth goals, reach out to him at intelligent demand.

com schedule a free consult, talk some shop. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: That's so I, I, I think the, the leadership team and the impact of their trust and the way that it trickles down into the organization is so important. So, so impactful to have that next layer down trust and that next layer down and, and to really grow a successful team together.

Um, you mentioned earlier kind of this post pandemic world, and I, I, one of these days I really want to stop referencing that, but if you're right, that it's, this is a whole new playbook of leadership from a leadership team perspective and leading others. I'd love to hear a little bit. of what you've been seeing as teams have evolved into different formats where they're fully remote or hybrid or maybe going back to the office.

What are some key points for leaders to be good leaders in this new world of leadership? 

Darrell Hammond: If I don't trust you and I can see you, then the chances of us not being together, it's like, wait a minute, is John really working? Where's he over there playing with his puppies? Like, is he doing his laundry? Well, yeah, he's doing both.

Okay. But is he getting the work done? If he's getting the work done, let the brother loose and let him do what he needs to do, right? Don't micromanage him. But if there, but if there's not a good method and a good system of how we're going to play this game virtually and make sure that stuff is getting done, that accountability piece in there.

Then I'm always going to question whether John's working hard. You're going to feel that for me, that's lack of trust. And you know what, you're going to probably go, if somebody offered me a job today, I would rather be with somebody that trusts me and let me, lets me do my laundry while my, while I'm in my meeting and they don't care about that.

Because I'm actually going to work more hours when after, you know, when everybody is asleep and I have this idea, I'm going to get up in the middle of the night and I'm going to crush something that I wouldn't necessarily normally do if I was coming into the office. Does that make sense? Um, so I would just say, um, uh, let me, let me put it this way.

Every leader in every sector that I'm working in is telling me this. I am so busy. I can't even see straight and I'm tired. Yeah, right. And the question that I want to ask next is, What are you busy doing? Like, are you still trying to keep your hands down in the technical stuff? Are you trying to be that subject matter extrovert?

Because it doesn't mean that you're not gonna be tired when you're doing leadership stuff. But if you're trying to do both, then there's a good chance that not only are you tired, but you're wearing your team out as well. Because they don't know when you're going to put your hands on their, on their projects and when you're going to get involved.

And, you know, if you, if you took enough time to give me a really solid delegation that now lets me know that you trust me and that you're going to turn me over and there's times that we're going to check in with each other, but you're not going to be all up in my business every day and wondering what's going on.

So I just think that, you know, relationship and, and, um, so if, if my wife were here, I, uh, I'll give her, I'll give her credit anyway for it. We have five kids and one of the things. She shared and learned early is if you're developing a really good relationship with your kids when they're younger before they get a one in front of their, their age, there's a pretty good chance that when we get into that teenage time, and there's not a relationship.

That things are going to go equally pretty bad, but if there's a relationship and some trust that's being built in that time and that space where, you know, I'm not going to judge you from where I am now at the end of my career on on your on your decisions, because I've got all this experience that goes with it.

I can't expect you to do that. Your kid, right? But if I can say that it's a safe place for us to have a conversation, there's a good chance that I'm, I'm willing. And so I'm using a double analogy here, whether you're a kid or whether you're an employee that you're going to feel like you can trust me enough to come up and say, I think I messed this up.

You know, or I left out a key metric and I need to go back and redo the report. Or, um, you know, me and Billy went down the street and we were throwing rocks and I broke somebody's window or whatever, if there's not the trust there to have that conversation, stuff is going to happen in your organization that you don't know about it until it's way too late.

And then guess what? Then it's, then it's bad news for everybody. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah. 

Darrell Hammond: I don't know. I don't know if that specifically answered your, your post pandemic question, but Uh, I just, I would just say, because people are so busy, are you taking time as a leader to build the trust that you need and that you want?

And if you're so busy doing other things, playing whack a mole, then there's a good chance that your relationships aren't as strong and then you're, uh, you're, um, Your performance won't be as strong either. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Right. I was thinking as you were speaking, the, I love the point about having a safe space and building that trust.

And I think oftentimes it's also maybe just asking your people, what do you need from me? Or this is what I need from you to kind of setting those expectations early so that we have that. So therefore I think I'm doing a great job. And you're asking, why am I not getting things done on time? I was like, I thought I was doing good.

But if you set those expectations, ask those questions, I think that's, that helps to build that foundation to have that. safe space. Um, and as you were talking to around this, like having a safe space, building trust with each other. One thing I kept thinking about is, you know, these are the companies where they create a sense of belonging and a sense of inclusion.

And I, I love to dig in a little bit on that topic as well of, um, Again, when companies focus on building safe spaces and having a sense of belonging, what impact do you see when they put that as a priority in their organization, in their culture as far as performance? 

Darrell Hammond: Oh man, there's so many. The first one that comes to my mind is it's fun to go to work.

I mean, I'm looking forward to hanging out with people that, that I can trust and that I can be around. And you know what, when you get that kind of energy and that kind of juice going, all kinds of magical things happen, right? Not only is it fun to come to work, but the creativity is not stifled and it just flows and you're going to come up with things that you would have never come up with before.

So I would just start there. Um, you know, this, this idea of, um. Of inclusion. Um, frankly, there are some people that are talking now about, can we stop talking about inclusion and diversity and equity? Oh, my gosh. You know, when are we, when is this going to be over? And, and part of me is like, well, hold on now as a leader.

Don't you want people? To want to come and work with you. And don't you want people to respect each other because if they don't, then their work is not going to be as good. And it's not going to be as fun to be around and all of those things. And I just feel like people don't pump the brakes long enough to say.

Why is this important? Is it, is it important for some other reason or is it as important for performance? Like, cause at the end of the day, we're trying to ring the bell, right? We're trying to have good results. We're trying to have good commitment. And if all things go well, our culture will be really healthy.

Right. And I just think that those things play back and forth with each other. It's not one or the other. I mean, you can have a, you can have a great performing company, but people hate each other and your turnover is going to be out of the roof and you're going to have claims and, and, uh, you know, disgruntled employees and EEOC is going to be climbing down your back.

Cause you're doing things that aren't that just aren't right. So, so I think part of this is. Stop looking at DEI or just inclusion and belonging as this bolt on thing that we have to do because HR told us we had to do it and we went to the training. No, no, no. It's just human respect. When you don't feel respected, do you give your best effort, listener?

When you, when you don't feel respected, really, or you're just going to check the box and just work the number of hours that you're going to work. And then I'm going to, I'm just, I'm, I'm living to work. I'm working to live. I'm living to work. You know how that expression goes, right? I'm just going to come in and what I'm going to put on my Jersey and I'm taking it off at four 49.

And so that it's off when, when the clock strikes five, I'm done. Versus the person that loves the work and loves the people so much that they don't want to let their team down and they're going to go and they're going to do their family things at five Oh one. But when the kids are in bed and everybody, the conversations have been had, they're going to creep back out and get on that laptop and they're going to crack out some of the most amazing things you've ever seen.

I just feel like all of that is. Bigger than most people are giving it credit for. John, what are you thinking? I see your wheels turning there. I know, I know you, man. 

John Common: If you had asked me 10, 15 years ago, John, do you believe in fairness and, and being nice to people and include them? I'd be like, yeah. And then if you had said, what do we think about DI?

I'd say, that's great. But what has changed for me is kind of what you were talking about, which is you go, it's not a slogan. It's actually, it really is a strategy. And I, you know, I wonder, how can we. How can a person at a company who, who wants to push their culture and the way that they make these kinds of decisions at their company, push it forward?

What's a, what's a, what's a courageous way or piece of advice you would give a leader to be like, I want to help my organization understand and activate this on it in a way that's deeper than a slogan? What, what advice would you have? 

Darrell Hammond: That's great. Um, I would bet that, you know, 95 percent of organizations have something called core values or a code of ethics or what, you know, it has, it all has all kinds of different flavors and names.

And usually in there are, you know, respect and integrity and trust and, you know, whatever it's, it's different, different things, different names, same thing. The first question I would ask, you know, from, from a leadership perspective, I would ask. That leader to have the courage to ask the question of their, their peers on the leadership team, are these just words or are we actually trying to live these?

And, and, and if we're trying to live them, how does that come out in the decision we're trying to make now about how we're going to treat this customer situation or this employee situation? Like, are they, is that kind of a central theme of how they're actually going to apply it? Because if it's not, then leadership is kind of a joke.

Uh, to the rest of the organization when we try to hold somebody else accountable, like that doesn't line up with our values and like, hold up, but wait a minute last week, you said, and you did the modeling. Remember, we talked about modeling as readers go. So goes the organization. If I'm not ingesting those values, and if I don't.

If I can't say them out loud without looking without having to go look at them, then there's a good chance that you are not operating within that mindset. It's not part of you. It's a bolt on like you were describing. So I would say leaders, you want a strong culture, make sure you go back and look at your values.

If you haven't looked at them for a while, make sure they're the right ones for now and in the future. Right. You may need to do a revamp. Um, if they are the right ones, then the next question is how much on a scale of one to five, are we, are we doing this? Like always and never. Right. And then ask ourselves the question, are we using this in our decision making?

If you're not in leadership, but you want to be in leadership, And I would just say, listen very carefully to the next words. You have to do this, uh, in a way that isn't judgey, but to ask the question, Hey, how does that tie out with our, with, you know, you're speaking to your leadership, right? Help me understand how our values tie into this decision or the way that we're approaching this, because I want to make sure that I'm in alignment with the That and this doesn't feel right to me.

So help me understand that. And two things could happen. That person will say, Oh man, I forgot to tell you how this works. And then they're going to enlighten you to like, Oh, now that makes sense. Or you will actually be leading up and challenging your leader to step up and step into living these values, not just talking about them, right.

But I mean, but there's a little bit of a, you don't want to do that in a judgy kind of a way, because that can go bad on you real fast. Right. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah. 

Darrell Hammond: But the idea here is, are these things as important as we say they are? Yeah. Then I need some help connecting these dots. Cause I'm, I'm having a really difficult time.

Can you help me with that? There's a whole, it's almost like teach me right. And part of that teaching me is, Ooh, I'm not doing that myself. I guess I better make sure I'm doing a better job of modeling that and bringing that to the table. 

John Common: I just think there's something. To be remembered there that it, if you're a senior leader or a mid level kind of mid person leader kind of person, um, and you're not getting feedback from the people who you are supposed to serve and lead, I would say, I think that's a symptom that there's some work to be done.

Yeah, and I will also in my, in my, my PS to that is, and get ready to. Not enjoy it all the time, but you're 

Darrell Hammond: the one who wanted to be a leader and part of that is, you know If if I need to be seen as a leader who's never wrong Then when people come to me with that kind of thing i'm going to be pissed off Instead of being open to the idea of I wonder if there is a better way that we could do that.

Right? So there's a little part of me here that just says, leaders, are you in a place? Are you in a healthy enough place where you can hear something that doesn't line up with the way that you thought it should be? And if it's a better idea now, don't go back to your executive team and say, I came up with this great idea.

I mean, give John the credit, you know, give Anne Marie the credit. Uh, open the window and point out at this amazing team that you have out here. Um, and, and not take credit for it. And I just see a lot of leaders who are just so insecure that they're going to, they're going to find every good idea and take it on as their own.

And that, that is never going to serve you well, it's never going to end up with a healthy culture. 

John Common: Doesn't talent ultimately flee that? 

Darrell Hammond: Eagles fly, baby. Eagles fly. They are not going to stay. 

John Common: Talk to me. About what you've learned, what you see when it comes to how executives, this is going to, maybe this is not a great topic, but I think it's important.

How do executives and leaders take care of themselves? Self care. I, I, I don't mean it in a selfish way. I mean, in a leadership is not for the faint of heart, and it's a, it's not a sprint either. It's a long journey. How do, what advice would you give leaders who maybe their batteries are 

Darrell Hammond: running 

John Common: thin? 

Darrell Hammond: I think, first of all, we have to recognize, and this is going to sound like, you know, the, the, the biggest duh ever, because people are all different.

different things will help recharge your battery. One of the things that I would encourage people to do is what really excited you and, and, and made you feel alive when you were a kid. Like, think about something in that, like I was in a meeting the other day with executives and I kid you not, two of these executives had a coloring book out and they were coloring while they were listening.

And I was like, Isn't this interesting? Like, I wonder what the organization would, you know, the non executives would think if they could see executives coloring, but there's this, it was like this release space where I'm listening, but I'm also, I need to get this out. Um, I was driving home, uh, uh, one day and I passed an archery range.

And I was like, I used to love archery. I'm a consultant. I'm going to go and shoot some arrows. Right. And you know, I'm six, seven, I got arms. My arms are almost as long as my legs. So I had, I probably looked like a gorilla with a bow because you know, the arrow came off the thing and all of that. But what I realized was, I take this deep breath.

I focus on one thing at a time. I released that arrow and guess what? I get to do it again and I get to refine it. And, and I, you know, the recentering of, uh, the archery just, it's like this Zen thing for me. Right. I didn't know this about you. 

John Common: This is amazing. 

Darrell Hammond: But here's the deal. It doesn't have a lot of cardio.

Like there's not a whole lot of stuff going on, but my head and my arms. Right. So now it's like, okay, Daryl. So if you want to go shoot, then you either have to go and walk, or you have to ride before you can actually go do the thing you really want to do. And so it's kind of tricking myself a little bit here, right?

But for me to maintain what I'm trying to maintain of this old body of mine, I better be doing some cardio and some, you know, some, some of that activity so that I can go and enjoy the thing. And I do, because that sets me free. It just does. I'm a better person because, you know, I mean, just shooting arrows, that sounds ridiculous, right?

John Common: I think inside that story is, is That you just told about it is not only find, find what sets you free or make sure or reconnects you to your unique joy, whatever that is. But I always think about how do you move upstream from that moment of that decision. And I think there's like a, the decision before the decision.

And what I mean by that is before you decide to go do some archery or go for a run, I think there's the decision before that, that you have to give yourself permission. To do it, you know, I think that especially leaders who we want to go work for They get good at serving others, but at some point don't you have to say?

I'm not going to do, I'm not going to spend a hundred percent. I can't spend a hundred percent of my energy serving others. I have to reserve some for my family or for some, for me. I don't know if you have a thought about that. 

Darrell Hammond: Yeah. You know, I do. Thank you for bringing that up. Um, I have two thoughts on that.

Um, the, the first thought is, um, when, when those of you that are aspiring to be leaders, the clock never really goes off. Like you're always thinking about it. And depending on the role that you're in, sometimes you're in a 24, seven mode where people have to call you other than otherwise things go really bad.

So we know that we're already spending more time and more energy and, and to try to get to a place where it's like, okay, I'm going to let all the right people know that I'm going offline. So that if something does happen, there's a plan, right? There's, there are other people that can handle that, but I want people to know that I'm going offline, I'm going to be unavailable, out of reach, out of distance, whatever you want to call it.

And I'm going to plug in and it could be, it doesn't have to be any of the things we've talked about. It could be singing. It could be dancing. It could be yoga, whatever, pick your thing. Right. But it's okay because think about the number of hours that you're giving at work. And if, and if you burn out, so let me, let me, this is the second thing that I was going to bring up is, um, I work with a guy who's a former Marine and this guy is like V shaped jarhead haircut, the whole nine, right?

He's been out of the Marines forever, but he, I mean, he's one of those guys that you look at it, like, I don't want to piss him off. He's that guy, right? And he's this great leader too. And he's super compassionate and all of that. And he heard me say for years and years and years, um, if, if you are, if your body is giving you these signs, pay attention, insomnia, insomnia, Indigestion, low grade, uh, irritability, you know, you're just kind of pissy and you're just like, uh, all the time with everyone.

Those are signs that you're probably on the brink, right? Of maybe having a emotional or physical, uh, uh, collapse is not the right word, but, uh, Incident. Right. And I said, if you don't pay attention to those, it's kind of like putting not a, not a, not a apple product, but a, a computer, uh, a PC on a bedspread, there's no ventilation.

And what happens that computer shuts itself off to protect itself. That's right. And your body will do that. If you don't do it first. So this is what John was just talking about. The decision before the decision is. Don't let your stupid computer on the , you know, don't let your computer on the bedspread, which the, the equivalent to that is don't give so much that, um, that you're, you're, you're gonna wreck your, your personal relationships or wreck your health.

So I get this call from my buddy, he doesn't even announce himself. He's like, coach, you were, you were right. You know? Uh, and I was like. I was like, is that you? Like he just, he was so passionate about telling me what was going on. And he said, you know, um, I had, you know, I had insomnia, I had indigestion and then I had this pain in my right arm and, and, and dude, I had a panic.

This Marine had a panic attack to the point where he had to go on leave of absence, step out of his job. And he's like, you were right. Tell everybody that you're talking with about this topic, pay attention to your body, pay attention to the people around you that are saying, why are you so snarky these days?

Like that's a sign that you're probably a little more pissy than normal. And then the idea here is, um, you know, he was starting to become stressed talking to me about not being in the game. And I'm like, Bill, calm down, buddy. Okay. Right. You're the leave of absence is good for you. Take a deep breath and all of that.

And he's like, please pass this on to anybody and everybody. It's not worth it. Right. When you're working harder than you can or should, you're really not giving the best version of yourself at work anymore. So recharging, taking some breaths, meditating, doing whatever you're doing is actually going to make you better in all of those areas, not just working harder and longer.

It's, it's not. And at the end of my career, um, I, I may, I, I, hi, I'm Daryl. I love my job. I'm a workaholic. I love my, I love, and it impacted my marriage. You know, I, I. The fair with my job, not at my job with my job and, and my job became my mistress to the point where it felt like I was with my wife, but I was thinking about my job and she could feel it.

And it caused us to go like this. And no, a decade later, I'm still trying to repair that. So here from down the road, all you young ins don't do it. You know, dial it back. Take care of yourself. Take care of your relationships. Take care of your puppies, John, right? Take care of your dog because they need you too.

And, um, and you will be a better person. You will have better outcomes. You'll have better performance. If you do that, 

John Common: Daryl. Usually about once an episode on growth driver. There's a drop the mic moment. That was it. That was it, man Thank you for being talk about authentic. That was real Thank you for sharing that and I'd be shocked if every single person listening isn't saying to themselves I think I recognize a portion of myself in that story And so thank you for that, man.

All right um That was great. Uh, so, um, I want to end this interview just talking to you as a person and, and, and you. What's so great about you is that you just, your darl ness, your auth, you talk about authentic, you just come through no matter what we talk about. But I wanna just put the spotlight a little bit on you, just you as a person for a second.

So. 

Darrell Hammond: I'm getting all up in my business now, John. I am. Some of this is none of your business, man. 

John Common: Oh, don't worry. We'll keep it safe. It's going to be safe. And this is a safe space, Daryl. All right. Safe space. What is it about, what is it about leadership and organizational strategy and culture and inclusivity that has captured and held your attention for so many years?

Why did you? Do you spend a huge portion of your life, your career doing what you have done and what you do? Why? 

Darrell Hammond: Yeah, you know, it is. That's a great question. Um, it took me a while to actually be able to put words to this job, but I feel like the purpose that I'm on the planet is to come alongside of leaders who are serving other people.

Like, I'm supposed to serve leaders and equip them and encourage them and give them a bottle of Gatorade, have them come out of the game, give them a towel, give them a little pep talk, spank them on the butt, and send them back in the game because it, leadership ain't no joke. Okay, it is hard. It is challenging emotionally, relationally.

Um, and so part of what I feel like I'm supposed to do is just to come alongside of leaders and help them lead. When in a safe space, like, you know, who's going to tell anybody that you're scared to leave? So I just feel like in that moment, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, man. And I do that every opportunity that I get.

John Common: Where do you go to learn and get inspired? What books? What thought leaders? You mentioned a couple of books already earlier in the, uh, in the discussion, but where do you go to get to learn? 

Darrell Hammond: Uh, well, first of all, can I just say that the coach has coaches? Okay. I've got people that I go to when I'm just saying, Hey, uh, you know, it's almost like, you know, a therapist to a certain degree, right?

It's like, you know, everybody can use a little therapy. It's good for, it's good for you, uh, is, is having someone that can actually say, Hey, this is what I'm doing. This is how I'm doing it. It felt wonky. What are you doing? So I'm actually tapping into other people who are in the same space as I am. Um, and they know what I'm about and they can actually call me on my stuff is like, that's not what you said this, but you did that.

And I want those people in my life to be able to, you know, you know, speak to me in that space. Um, can I just tell you that, uh, Brene Brown is, is one of the most amazing humans on the planet. And if, and listeners, if you don't know who she is, just, just plunk her name into any search engine anywhere. And just, if there's a video or a podcast, just listen and you will get, you know, your sats.

She talks so much about this idea of being authentic and that it's okay. And most of us are afraid. And, you know, I think she still has one of the top 10, um, Ted talks of all time. And, um, and, uh, and the topic would, would blow your mind as to why she has that, but she's literally speaking to every corner of society and, and, and.

And she has perspectives on the space that I think would be huge for anybody. So I drink deeply me and me and Brene Brown go on bike rides together and we go on walks together and every now and then I'm like, hold up, girl, let me just press this return. I got, you said that again, you know, and I go back three, three points and I'm like, say that again, girlfriend.

I got to hear that again. That was good. And, uh, she doesn't know that we're like that, but you know, In my mind, we're besties, right? Yeah, she, uh, she's good. Um, there are just so many different authors and, and when I say authors, please don't get me wrong. I got a lot of books on my bookshelf. I'm kind of a skimmer.

I'm a skimmer, you know, Um, when I have an issue or a need personally, or one of my clients has a need, I go and find the person who is the expert on that topic. And then I go in and read that chapter of that book, or I listen to that part of the podcast. And because I'm listening to several flows of information, creativity pops out of that.

And then that turns into, I know how to weave that together, giving credit to where it's due, but I weave it together into a cocktail that actually meets your need and your need and your need. I feel like Oprah, we got a need for you and a need for you. But, but I'm not coming up with this stuff on my own, but I would say this.

If you don't have different channels of new, fresh information, washing over you on a regular basis, don't go around telling everybody you've got 15 years of experience in your job. Cause really you just have maybe one or two years of the same experience over and over for 15 years. 

John Common: Do you have 15 different years of experience?

Or do you have just one year of experience that you've repeated 15 times? Grow have the courage to try some new things and and and grow in your career that is Awesome what you said? Wow, that's really great. Um, I think this is a great place to say for being on growth driver. I knew it was going to be awesome emery We we knew didn't we we geeked 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: out for weeks about this.

Yes You 

John Common: Thank you for very kind. Thank you for being so generous with your time. Uh, thank you for coming on this show um, thank you for being so so Demonstrating your own advice being so authentic and also just as a friend and a co worker of yours I just want to say thank you for spending so much of your career Doing what you do.

Um, you know, uh, I, I, I just appreciate it. 

Darrell Hammond: Uh, I'm honored to be on honored to be both of your friends and, uh, for all you growth driver, uh, listeners out there, don't just listen to this and go on to the next thing, pick one stinking thing that we talked about today and Just do it. All right. Just one, just one.

Doesn't have to be all of them. Just pick one thing from these different podcasts and then go and do it and start getting better at it. So, all right, you guys, thank you so much for having me on. What an honor to be here with you today. Thank you so much, 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Darrell. Appreciate it. 

Darrell Hammond: You're welcome. 

John Common: Uh, Emery, we just, uh, we just said goodbye to Daryl.

That was, uh, that was pretty great as expected. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah. So fun. 

John Common: It's like he has spent his whole career talking to leaders or something. You know, I, I wrote down, um, I wrote down a list of words that, that, that stood out to me during the episode. I think I want to, it's, it's, it's, it's like micro notes. So I wrote down authenticity.

And it could call this the list of like keynotes or like jumping end points for senior leaders. So authenticity, accountability, courage, systems thinking, leadership versus management, delegation, trust, business impact, accountability, self care. And then I wrote mentors and coaches need mentoring and coaches.

Yeah. I love when he said that, but like, man, we actually talked about all of those things. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah. In a short amount of time, there are so many great moments from, from that whole interview. I'm so excited to take those. And like he said, just take one thing and implement it and be a, be that much better of a leader coming out of it.

It was great. 

John Common: Yeah, and it's fun to do it with you too. Thank you for being a co host with me here on growth driver 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Yeah, so much fun. Thanks for doing it all together 

John Common: Oh, you're so good at it, too. Well, I tell you, um to you whoever you are listening out there I just want to thank you for giving it look Your second most precious thing is money your first most precious thing.

I think we can all agree is your time. You've given us time Today to listen to growth driver. I want to thank you for that. Hopefully you can tell That me and anne marie And our growth driver team we're trying to build something special here. We're trying to really add value and, and contribute to this community of geeky growth oriented leaders and people.

Um, so if you like what we're doing, please, uh, share it with a friend, uh, follow us, subscribe, say something nice about us if you, if you feel it. Um, if you see us out there, uh, uh, click it and comment. Um, we love hearing from you. And also I want to, and I know I speak for you too, Anne Marie. Um, if you've got ideas for topics or guests, uh, reach out to me or Anne Marie on LinkedIn.

We would love to hear from you. And, um, I guess the only other thing I want to say is I want you to know that Growth Driver is brought to you by the talented and kind people at Intelligent Demand. If you are a B2B CMO, CRO, Or a VP who's got a big growth target and limited time and limited budget. Do you recognize that?

If you're one of those people, go check them out. IntelligentDemand. com. They will help you update your growth playbook and help you drive efficient, creative, strategic growth. With that, me and Anne Marie wish you well and we'll see you soon on Growth Driver, right? 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: Absolutely. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

John Common: Bye everybody. 

Anne-Marie Coughlin: See ya.